So, what do you think of Nora's decision? Why is she doing it? Would you make the same decision? Think of women you know; would they do this? As you think about this, make sure you keep in mind that this was in 1879 and that a woman then did not have the same freedoms and opportunities she might today. But, you might also ask yourself if it would be any easier today for a woman to give up her comfortable life style for whatever reasons Nora is giving up hers. One point of clarification: when she says she is going home, she means she is going to her home town, not to the home or house where she grew up. She is essentially placing herself in the same position that Mrs. Linde was in. (don't let my questions restrict you. say anything you want about Nora)
Mr. Barton
12 comments:
I think that Nora's decision was very out of character and showed a very drastic change. I can see how she made that decision and I am impressed with how she realized how both her father and Torvald have treated her like a doll child and wife for her whole life. If I had been Nora I would not have left Torvald because in 1879, a woman relied completely on her husband. Also, I do not think I could have left my children the way she did. Seeing how she really does not know how to be a good mother to her children seeing as she has never learned to be an adult. Today, a woman leaving a man is somewhat typical and much easier because the woman still has rights in society. The fact that she does this after he "forgives" her and after she is shown what the world without a man can do to a woman (Mrs. Linde) it shows that Nora is very courageous by making this choice. Torvald obviously never expects this from Nora and never thought that she was capable of making such a decision. This shows that Nora is a strong woman capable of making her own choices that are most beneficial of her instead of what society will think. This shows a major change in Nora.
--fruitlooop
Throughout the book Nora seems helpless because she is always depending on the maids and Torvald to do things for her, but this decision shows that she has become independent. She realizes that she has been treated by a doll by her father, and she has been so sheltered that she hasn't had anytime to be on her own. When she married Torvald, he did the same for her. Before the situation with Krogstad, Nora realized that she had never really had a deep conversation with Torvald, and he never talked to her about anything serious. This made her understand that he treats her as a child who is not capable of handling difficult situations. Nora finally has realized after dealing with Krogstad that she wants to be on her own and not have to depend on anyone to look after her. I think it was a poor choice to leave so quickly, and disconnect herself from Torvald and the family she created, but it is smart to do what she thinks is best. She does not feel threatened of being alone, which is what most women fear. This is a large character change from the beginning of the book because Nora has become more self reliant and realized what she needed to change in herself.
--lambchop--
Nora's decision is completely unexpected. She has always been pampered and loved by Torvald, so when she tells him that she really doesn't love him, it comes as a complete shock. She only does this because she finds that he would not take the blame for her, which is the "wonderful thing" she thought that he would do. When he doesn't, she proves her theory that he doesn't love her, and therefore, she shouldn't love him. She is really giving up a lot by doing this, especially because she will have to be like Mrs. Linde and provide for herself. She feels that since her whole life she has been treated like a doll, she needs to get out of that position. I would probably not make that decision, but if I was that unhappy and I didn't love my spouse, I might do it.
--CocaCola--
At first,I thought that Nora's decision to leave her family and husband in attempt to go "find herself" was a very selfless act because she would be depriving herself of her children whom she loved, and the comfortable lifestyle she was accustomed to. After reading the letter from Krogstad explaining how he will resign willfully, Torvald even assures Nora that everything will return to normal, saying that," the whole thing shall be nothing but a bad dream to me"(64) and that "soon everything will be just as it was before" (65). But I realized that this decision is actually a selfish one because the reason why is she leaving Torvald and her kids is because Nora says that for her whole life, she has only agreed with her father and with Torvald, and has morphed their opinions and ideas into her own. On page 66, she says, "I have made nothing of my life"; and thus, Nora is going back to her home town in order to understand herself, and teach herself about life. I do believe this is a selfish decision, yet I do not think its necessarily bad because I think that it is vital for a person to know them self, and ones responsibility to them self, or their "duties" to one's self as Nora puts it(68), should rise above everything else in that person's life. I agree with Nora that leaving her family is the extreme, but necessary measures to go to in order to get to know herself, but I don't think that I could be that selfless, and just leave my kids like that. I think that my love for my kids would be to strong to disciplined enough to pull myself away from them, and possibly never see them again. Many women in society feel as I think I would feel; they remain in unhappy marriages solely for the sake of their children. However, Nora does say that one of the reasons for her leaving is in fact that she wants to learn to become a better mother, and that she "must try and become one"(68), meaning a mother. I admire the selflessness Nora demonstrates by choosing to leave her greatly loved children, but whether she realizes she is being selfless or selfish, I think, is unclear to her.
----pika pika PICACHU-----
I am confused by Nora’s decision. It was very out of character and I think she might have acted too quickly. Although I respect her decision to leave Torvald and her dollhouse like lifestyle, it was selfish to leave her children. Nora made her decision when she realized being treated like a doll by first her father than her husband prevented her and Torvald from ever building a relationship. Even after Torvald assured her he forgave her whole association with Krogstad, Nora would not accept that her relationship with Torvald could be as blissfully ignorant as it once was. Nora is very courageous to give up such a pampered life, especially in a time when a woman’s life was formed around a man’s. Nora had seen a first hand account of a future not involving a man in her friend Mrs. Linde. Nora’s decision to give up such and easy lifestyle for one that will be considerably harder considering women did not have the same opportunities as men at this time shows that she has changed from the person she was at the beginning of the play. Nora is giving up everything that she knows for a cloudy future. Although I understand her need to leave Torvald and his patronizing nature, I could never desert my own children. Nora had only just complained about her twisted childhood when she decided she is not fit to raise her own children. Leaving her children behind assures their childhood will be no more normal than her own.
-banana bread
What Nora did was very brave. In 1879, women were never without a husband by choice. Women also had a very hard time finding jobs and making money for themselves, as we see with Mrs. Linde. When Nora told Torvald that she knew he and her father never loved her for who she was but they loved the idea of her, it shows how Nora is really taking control of her life. She realizes no one takes her seriously and that needs to be changed. Nora also discovers that she has never lived her life, she has just been a doll controled by Torvald and her father and that she is doing the same for her children. Nora tells Torvald how she always has the same opinions because he choses everything for her and she wants to change this so that she can have her own opinions. It is very big of Nora to realize these things and to make the dicision to fix it. Nora wants to have a real life and it will be good for her to learn to act like a real human being.
--puppygal
Nora's decision can be argued either way, but I think that it might not be a selfless act as some others think. She is not loved by Torvald, who sees her like a doll. She never talks to him seriously, and their relationship is very rocky. If I had been Nora, I would not have just left without really knowing where I was going to go because as a woman in that time period I would have absolutely nothing. This decision was probably made too hastily without enough thought because she has no plan on how she will do what she wants to. I think that if Nora never loved Torvald, then she should never have been with him in the first place. Also, she acts kind of irresponsible by just deciding to leave. Even though Krogstad placed her in a dilemna which did not go well, Nora came out victorious, but I think that this decision might not last. However, it is up to her to choose what she does, and if she sticks with it it might work out after all.
--mysteryblogger
All through her life, Nora has been toyed with and played with. Nora has never made decisions of her own or had opinions of her own; she has merely conformed to the decisions of either her father or her husband. “When I was at home with papa, he told me his opinion about everything, and so I had the same opinions; and if I differed from him I
concealed the fact, because he would not have liked it (Pg.66).” It is safe to say that Nora has never had a life of her own. She has never fully expressed who she is because society expects her to be the doormat wife who does as men say and tends to the children. “I have existed merely to perform tricks for you, Torvald. But you would have it so. You and papa have committed a great sin against me. It is your fault that I have made nothing of my life (Pg. 66).” By the end of the play, even Nora realizes that her only purpose in life has been nothing more than to be played with and to look good. Nora, witty as she is, must leave her current life to figure out who she is, establish her independence, prove her strength of principle, and put an end to her self-imprisonment. Even though it includes leaving her children, whom she clearly loves, she must help herself before she can help others; she must make herself a good mother and a better person before she is involved with anyone she is likely to influence, such as her children. Nora goes back to her hometown, a symbol of rebirth. She is starting over; going back to where she was born, growing up, and making a new life of her own. The fact that this happens on New Years is also symbolic, and a perfect time for Nora to start over. Leaving is necessary for her to accomplish what she wants because in a place where everything is tended to by maids, and where she does not even know her own husband of eight years, she cannot stay and form her identity. Torvald’s explosion after learning of Nora’s actions is the final stimulant of her departure. Through Torvald’s rage, Nora learns that he is a hypocrite. A few minutes before the quarrel, Torvald says, “Do you know, Nora, I have often wished that you might be threatened by some great danger, so that I might risk my life's blood, and everything, for your sake (P. 61).” Ironically, a few minutes after he says this, he learns that his wife is indeed in great danger. Proving to be the hypocrite he is, Torvald insults Nora and seems to be worried only about his reputation and what people will think of him; not once do his thoughts sway towards the well being of his wife, the person to whom he has just told he would risk his life’s blood for. Additionally, not once does he consider the fact that if Nora had not committed this action he would not be alive today. If I were Nora, I would have made the same decision, but I would have taken my children with me. I do not have children of my own, but I’m sure if I did I would never abandon them and leave them with a man such as Torvald. There are women I know who would make the same decision as Nora, leaving their homes, husbands, and children. There are also others who would take their children with them, and others who would continue to cement themselves to their morose lives because the love of their children impedes them from leaving. It is clearly easier to divorce your husband and become independent today than it was in 1879. In 1879, it was most likely unheard of. Women had no rights and it was hard for them to survive on their own, Mrs. Linde being a perfect example. After being witness to the tragedies and depressions Mrs. Linde has endured, it is extremely courageous of Nora to willingly put herself in the same situation. Since the beginning of the play, we have learned that Nora is full of surprises, but this is the most unexpected, biggest surprise of all.
I think Nora's decision to leave her family was a little sudden. I don't think she thought it through. It is selfish of her to leave her children, even though she may not be the best mother, her kids still love her, and I think it will be hard on them if she leaves. It was a brave thing for her to do, because she has no where to go, and in the 1800s women were not treated the same as they are now. It will be a challenge for her to pull her life together after she leaves. Nora does deserve to "educate" herself; she is right when she says she has been treated like a doll her whole life. She has never thought or acted for herself. She always did what she was told, (except for the small things like eating macaroons). When Torvald read the first letter and gave Nora that whole lecture about how stupid she was, it was a turning point for Nora. She realized that he was not who she thought he was, and vise versa. The whole lecture, Torvald was only concerned for himself, he yelled at her for putting him in danger, then when he read the second letter, he was happy because he was going to be alright. I think Nora deserves to be able to find herself, but I think she should find a different way. I think that if Torvald had never read the letter, Nora and Torvald would have gone on with their lives and they would have never noticed the problems with their relationship. Nora was unhappy with her life, she realized that she did not love Torvald anymore, and it took Torvald a while to realize that he only liked the idea of being married to Nora. Nora's decision showed how much she changed since the beginning of the story. She has become more independent, but not more responsible. She did not think her decision through, it may not have been the best decision, and it would definitely be frowned upon by the society in the 1800s. :(
---EnGlIsH qT
I think that Nora definately did the right thing by leaving Torvald. Even though it was very out of character for a women to leave her husband during the 1870’s. Nora’s life with Torvald resembled much of a fantasy. She was loved by a wonderful guy named Torvald who not only treated her well, but pampered and spoiled her. Because of this, Nora never really grasped how things worked in the real world, because she was living in this giant fantasy. Nora’s immaturity was always thought of as cute, and never questioned until she went behind Torvald’s back and borrowed money from Krogstad. From this experience, she realized that living off of Torvald’s money, and being spoiled were not how she wanted to continue living her life. Nora was hungry for change, and realized that the past 8 years of her life she was in love with a person she not only didn’t know, but treated her as though she was a doll. I am really proud of Nora for realizing that this was not the life she wanted to live, but I wish she would have asked Mrs. Linde or Dr. Rank to help Torvald take care of the kids, and support them.
--SnOwBaLl:]--
I feel that Nora should not have left Torvald because she will definitly not be as comfortable as she was with Torvald, and she will have to work very hard to make money to sustain herself. Nora thinks that the relationship was too unstable and that she needed to stand on her own to feet for a while. Now that the secret debt has been revealed, I think Nora and Torvald could essentially "start over" and vow to not keep anymore secrets from each other. I would not make the same decision as Nora. I would have stayed with Torvald because Krogstad is no longer a problem and there are no more secrets (except the macaroons) between Nora and Torvald. In the present day, women leave their husbands all the time, but there are many more opportunities for them after the divorce than Nora has in 1879. Women have more rights and more opportunities to make money now then they did in 1879.
--RocketPower
To me, nora's decision to leave torvald and her home was the completely unexpected. After nora had fought so hard to make sure torvald never found out about her paying for the trip and, at one point, worrying that her lies were polluting the children, it was impossible to know that eventually she would drop everything and leave it behind. Throughout the entire book, nora is built up to this women who thrives on perfection and impressing her husband. For her to all of a sudden leave her husband and her family during a time where doing such a thing was virtually unheard of, nora is showing torvald and everyone else that she is finally realizing that she doesnt have to be the stereotypical wife and mother, in fact, shes the farthest thing from that. she understands now that she only made herself out to fit that character because in society it was expected. If someone in todays society was in the same situation as nora was and made the same decision she did, nothing would be thought of it.
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